December 10, 2009
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“When something bad happens to us, we may respond with, “What did I do? I must have done something terrible.” Then we proceed down the trail of morbid introspection or what I call “navel gazing.” We look down and into ourselves. We take ourselves apart piece by piece, examining and re-examining ourselves. Then we put ourselves back together trying to figure out what we did wrong. It may be that you have done absolutely nothing wrong, but God is simply testing your faith. You see, if we don’t understand this, we may get discouraged because the seeds of doubt and discouragement sprout in the soil of ignorance.” Adrian Rogers
“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” Hebrews 4:15
”Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. ” 1 Peter 1:3-9
Comments (20)
The world doesn’t work like that. Unspeakably horrible things happen to some good people and some truly evil people get all the breaks.
We live in a world where everything that can happen, will happen given enough time.
I believe this was more of a comment on hope and faith rather than a claim that bad things only happen to bad people.
@agnophilo -
@DarthPatriot -
True there is evil in this world and horrible things happen and it is true this comment is one of hope and faith in the face of such things as is this link that shares the answer that such evil can not understand nor can it hide from.
http://www.cfointernational.org/pdf/Letters%20By%20A%20Modern%20Mystic.pdf
If you read this you will understand the point I was making and what kind of world we may have if we shift our focus on what is true and truly matters.
I’m not going to read 37 pages because you won’t respond to my three sentence post in your own words.
@agnophilo - In my own words you remind me of a time i paid a to a large cave. After 2.5 hours we came to a rest stop with the guide giving us a little talk. At one part of the talk he turned off the light to show how dark it can be. In such darkness you know you could not get back out the cave on your own and it presses in all around you and you are bound by it . To know there is no hope to help free yourself since you do not the light needed to be set free. Many people have religion where the do things that make them feel good about themselves and they have a false faith or hope. You see religion only brings one into a area where someone may know about light and once in a while they may come across some one thatt has a relationship with the light in that they have reveived the light and by putting on Christ have put on the light . I know many scorn the light and have a heart full of anger or can not forgive and remain in the darkness by choice . These hate the light and those who are clothed by the light and even those who make the false claim to be of the light but just try to work hard to run next to the ligh. This person who wrote these 37 small pages with large print is one who received the light and knows Christ by a personal relationship that came by the power of Holy Spirit who touched the dark heart of this man as He did with my dark heart. I am now free to put on the light and walk the path God has for me but having known darkness and having aa mind and freewill at times my flesh kicks in and on my own the flesh in me goes against the will and blessing of the one who loves me. How lame it is to do so and how wonderful it is to return to the warmth of God’s arms as He lifts His child when I reach up to Him and I open my spirit eyes to see I am back into the light. You can scorn me or you may even hate me but if you want to understand me you can read of this relationship that some have entered into as they which were called of God entered into. Or you can jusst give it and me the brush off.
Barry
And if god and jesus is fiction like every other religion? What does that mean for your “light”?
In my honest opinion, that is the case.
@agnophilo - Like I said it is all about relationship with another person and not a opinion honest or not. Frank found this same relationship that I and many others have and what most never will. I know that must sicken you by the way you treat their names . You will never find what you will not seek and this goes for truth . Even all your energy and time you spend to go againt Christ he will continue and where God is to continue for everlasting evil and sin will not enter so if one is not in the proper relationship with the person of the living God they will continue as they wished to and that is without Him and His blessing. This is the truth and I know the person who truth is.
@agnophilo -
I’m not sure it really means anything in this case. If people get hope from something, whether its true or false, it still gives them hope. I am an atheist, but I do not feel the need to correct people all the time anymore. I don’t really care what people believe, as long as I am able to live my life how I wish to without unwanted intervention. If what they believe helps them, then I personally see very little problem with it. I see more zealotry coming from certain groups of atheists and muslims than I do from Christians to be honest. I used to be incredibly bitter and angry at people who believed in things I didn’t. I found my peace when I experienced a series of unfortunate events and began to delve into philosophies that I typically discounted. I think the best world anyone can rationally hope for in the short run is that more people begin to find that kind of peace.
@Barrygw -
“Like I said it is all about relationship with another person and not a opinion honest or not.”
You know hindus have a “personal relationship” with their deities too, right?
“Frank found this same relationship that I and many others have and what most never will. I know that must sicken you by the way you treat their names.”
No, it doesn’t sicken me. Don’t fill in my half of the conversation the way you do with god. Do me the courtesy of actually waiting for me to say something before hanging labels around my neck.
“You will never find what you will not seek and this goes for truth.”
And if the truth is that your god is an imaginary friend? Branding your version of reality “Truth” means nothing, it’s just an attempt to reinforce your beliefs.
“Even all your energy and time you spend to go againt Christ he will continue and where God is to continue for everlasting evil and sin will not enter so if one is not in the proper relationship with the person of the living God they will continue as they wished to and that is without Him and His blessing. This is the truth and I know the person who truth is.”
Bit of a run-on sentence there. The sum total of energy I spend “going against christ” is… zero. Christ is dead, he does not need to be resisted. Christianity, however, is alive and well.
@DarthPatriot -
“I’m not sure it really means anything in this case. If people get hope from something, whether its true or false, it still gives them hope.”
When I “lost” faith I had the same attitude, what does it matter if they’re just wrong, to each his/her own. But the more I looked around and saw the evil that religion does, the massive help it lends readily over and over again to corrupt and evil men, I couldn’t help but want to resist it. Not by force, but by reasoning with people – or at least trying to.
“I am an atheist, but I do not feel the need to correct people all the time anymore. I don’t really care what people believe, as long as I am able to live my life how I wish to without unwanted intervention. If what they believe helps them, then I personally see very little problem with it. I see more zealotry coming from certain groups of atheists and muslims than I do from Christians to be honest.”
The most “zealous” atheists are typically timid and polite compared to religious zealots, and the amount of harm they do to society is what exactly? Any atheists training suicide bombers or speaking in tongues?
Give me a break.
“I used to be incredibly bitter and angry at people who believed in things I didn’t. I found my peace when I experienced a series of unfortunate events and began to delve into philosophies that I typically discounted. I think the best world anyone can rationally hope for in the short run is that more people begin to find that kind of peace.”
What philosophies? And I’m not generally bitter toward believers, unless they’re dicks.
@agnophilo -
I wasn’t aware speaking in tongues was all that evil or harmful to society as a whole. The most zealous of atheists typically supports forced “charity” and indoctrination of the youth to support the agenda of “tolerance” and political correctness. The most sad part about the forced charity part is its based on a dogma that they can hardly defend as to why its morally objective. History reflects the atrocities of this dogma in the form of communism which caused more death than many wars. More recent history expresses failing European economies and massive unemployment due to socialist practices. In some instances, the unemployment rate is much worse on a regular basis than ours is at its worst. I know some suggest that Marxist philosophy can also be supported by religious people, but the fact is the examples I have presented are quite secular. If you are suggesting religion allows evil people to gain power, well, in some ways your right. Our Judeo-Christian sensibilities require that we “help” the needy and downtrodden, and even the most typical and avowed atheist is as dogmatic about this as the Christians you seem to know. If any harm was done, it was the strong influence it had in this particular area. The horrors that have been done in the name of base altruism is much more significant than any single religion, war, or bad idea combined. And as to your last statement, I am not sure that I was directly aiming “bitter” in your direction, merely pointing out that I used to be very bitter. However, if you responded to it…I am merely suggesting that there are alternative ideas out there that might improve a person’s general standard of living. People have so much guilt today, and many of my old atheist friends were very bitter and guilty all the time. The Philosophies of Fredrick Nietzsche and Ayn Rand if your curious. They are in some ways opposites, I think Ayn Rand makes much more sense, but they are both quite important.
@DarthPatriot -
Atheism and communism are two different things. I’ve met thousands of american atheists, I’ve never met an american communist.
I’m sorry, but communism, marxism, leninism, these are distinct ideologies set forth by those people, they are not a branch of atheism. And it’s not fair to paint atheists in general as communists.
If you want to criticize communism, go ahead. But don’t label communism as the normal outcome of atheism, it’s incorrect and insulting.
@agnophilo - What kind of personal relationships do they have Mark?
If it does not sicken you to show respect to their names then why do you not use caps on their names and have you used their names invain to express yourself?
Jesus makes me part of His life each day and I thank Him for that . I do understand py your past comments to me and others that you do not want to receive Him as Christ and that is up to you but don’t try to say to me Jesus is still dead and there is no living God. Those given to Him know Him and know when He speaks to their living spirit. Those that are not His can not hear since their spirit is dead to the person of God. It is the choice of that person to continue to carry a dead spirit attached to their everlasting soul. This is my answer to who is dead and who lives.
@Barrygw -
“What kind of personal relationships do they have Mark?”
You’d have to ask them. But I would guess imaginary ones.
“If it does not sicken you to show respect to their names then why do you not use caps on their names and have you used their names invain to express yourself?”
I generally don’t bother with capitalizing proper nouns unless I’m writing a blog. It’s not a show of disrespect. Me showing disrespect to god would be about as logical as you showing disrespect or anger toward zeus. Why would you be angry with a being which to you is a fictional character?
“Jesus makes me part of His life each day and I thank Him for that . I do understand py your past comments to me and others that you do not want to receive Him as Christ and that is up to you”
No, I don’t think he exists and see no reason to suppose he does. It has nothing to do with wanting or not wanting anything.
“but don’t try to say to me Jesus is still dead and there is no living God.”
I didn’t try to, I did.
“Those given to Him know Him and know when He speaks to their living spirit. Those that are not His can not hear since their spirit is dead to the person of God. It is the choice of that person to continue to carry a dead spirit attached to their everlasting soul. This is my answer to who is dead and who lives.”
Way to be condescending.
I’m sorry, but I’ve seen no indication that anyone who claims to be in communication with god is in communication with anyone but themselves. God tells them all totally different things, gives them no information that could not have come from their own imagination.
Why not ask jesus for a cancer cure during your next meeting. See how that goes.
Or ask your pal to give you a heads up if a tornado or hurricane or earthquake is going to kill you and everyone you love. You know, the courtesy he has never given any of his followers ever in the history of the world.
@agnophilo -
Wow, you know its strange because I never actually said that. Why would I say that when I am an atheist myself and I happen to be very pro free enterprise? What was being implied is that these are distinct secular ideologies and that there are very zealous people who support them. They are zealous, and they are atheist, so they are zealous atheists. If you must argue with me, at least argue with me and not with some imaginary person you invented who happens to have a weaker, less informed position. If I have to spell it out I will. Quite simply, there are atheists who adhere to the principles of altruism (or at least whenever it suits them), and then there are atheists like me who adhere to the principles of rational self interest. What I am saying is that I can defend my position, and the atheists who support the other are typically very dogmatic and cannot defend their position. In essence, they are dogmatists, and are very much akin to the religious guy who thinks its dandy to use the government to force people to act as they see fit (as moral agents via the use of coercion and force).
@DarthPatriot -
When someone criticizes christian zealots they don’t mean christians who happen to be zealous about something entirely unrelated to christianity.
It’s like impeaching christianity as harmful because some christian somewhere fucks goats. You know we can’t be tolerant of those christian goat-fuckers now…
@agnophilo -
lol. Hey, if its his goat…
But when you get to talking about say an atheist that happens to also be a socialist, would you not say that hey, this guy is a socialist because of his personal values or morality. Generally, most would agree that a person is generally a socialist or a communist or whatever due to their values. Socialism is a means to an end, but the altruistic atheist adopts that mindset because they generally see it as the obligation of society to insure that everyone involved gets their “fair shake”. This translates to the individual having a moral obligation, or, in other words, “my brother’s keeper”. A “live and let live” type of altruistic atheist makes it his personal responsibility to act as a moral agent on own. I would say this could be seen as a form of zealotry when that same person begins to force that agenda onto others by the use of force (aka the government). My view is that this is merely the other side of the same coin, where the other side has people doing the same thing but using religion as their rationalization.
Of course this goes way off topic as to the original post. People shouldn’t be worried so much as to what someone believes, but rather concern themselves with what they do with what they believe. I just don’t see any harm in someone using the bible to enrich their lives and make themselves happier. We can all disagree as to why bad things happen to good people, but I don’t see it as all that terrible when someone says “Hey, I believe in God, maybe God is allowing me to face the trials life has to offer to help me in the long run. Maybe he is trying to teach me to rely on my faith?”
@DarthPatriot -
You are acting as though there is a sliding scale with christianity on one end and communism (or altruism) on the other. This is a bizarre construct and it’s unfair to atheists. Though I think altruism in some form is more or less universal. It’s a basic biological impulse. I don’t think it necessarily translates into the weird fascist do-gooder behavior you are alluding to.
Atheism is non-belief or disbelief in the existence of gods. NOTHING ELSE.
Anything else an atheist is has nothing to do with atheism, atheism has no doctrine. Marxism, leninism etc are doctrines of their own.
Why pick on atheists as if they are the only ones that exhibit altruism?
@DarthPatriot -
I don’t agree with using “god” to deal with the trials of life for the same reason I don’t agree with using heroin or self mutilation as a coping mechanism. The effects on the individual and the society are usually not entirely positive, and there are far, far better coping mechanisms out there.